andrew malbrow Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Salut! M-am uitat recent la niște cabinete 4x12 si am fost surprins de diferența foarte mare de preț dintre aceste doua cabinete http://www.thomann.de/ro/harley_benton_g412a_vintage.htm http://www.thomann.de/ro/bogner_4x12_slant_bk.htm, desi au difuzoare care se presupune ca sunt identice. În afară de sigla "Bogner" si de lemnul de calitate superioară, mai este vreun lucru care să justifice diferența de preț dintre cele doua cabinete? Mulțumesc anticipat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarhead Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 La Bogner este in primul rand "numele", (care totusi e bazat aici evident si pe calitatea superlativa) .. ..Dar uita-te pe ebay la boxe/guitar cabs -- in special la firmele care fac custom/de comanda/"boutique" -- si la cele de serie, si vezi niste preturi de boxe UNloaded, cu diferentele respective de pret. Cu alte cuvinte, poti sa bagi vetreizeciu' lu' mamalu'Stefan celmare intr-o cutie de rumegush presat si e tot gunoi .. si dupa aia incearca o cutie de birch multistratificat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpi Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 BOGNER =fitze ...imagine de profesionist ? HB -ceva ieftin de care trebuie sa-ti fie rusine ca nu esti profesionist .? de trei ori prtetul nu pare justificat cu nimic . Un Celestion Vintage 30 costa 99Euro Nu cred ca vinde Celestion difuri cu calitate diferita sub aceiasi "denumire /tip de Vintage 30 " cu pretul atat de diferit . 100 (99 Euro) *4= 400 + cutia iese peste 400 asa ca pretul HB este cam la limita (379 Euro) cu toate ca probabil achizitioneaza difurile direct de la fabrica ..mai costa si "mobilierul ceva " 4x100Eu =400 + sa zicem 400Euro lada cu firma BOGNER iese 800 Euro nu vad de ce ar costa ..mai mult Dar cu un HB trebuie sa-ti fie rusine cu un BOGNER te vede lumea Steve Vai ..hehe Deci amandou apreturi sunt dubioasae ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew malbrow Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Dar difuzoarele de pe HB sunt originale? Cabinetul în sine e mai ieftin decât 4 dif. Vintage 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpi Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Dar difuzoarele de pe HB sunt originale? Cabinetul în sine e mai ieftin decât 4 dif. Vintage 30. pai am scris ca ....firma cumpara difurile mult mai ireftin decat cu cat vinde Tohmann sau altii ,,,, Tohmann vinde " replacing parts " ce sunt mult mai scummpe decat cele direct de la fabrica ! Daca cumperi "replacing parts " de ex .ptr. un Stratocaster poati sa ajungi la chitara mai scumpa decat daca cumperi de la Fender in magazin o chitara facuta din exact aceleasi materiale parti componente ... Amplifiocator la fel ..daca cumperi piesele ajungi mai scump decat un amplif din fabrica /magazin si unde pui ca mai si lucrezi ... Exista o PROBLEMA in cazul boxelor .. de ex.,,daca cumperi patru difuri nu ai garantia ca primesti patru difuri 100% la fel !!! In foaia driverelor ( difuri ) cred ca mai scrie ( inainte scriau ) toate datele de caractersitica sunt in marja de +/- 10% ( nu vad in foaia de caracteristici ,,dar eu am pe undeva tabele din anii 80 unde scria frumos +/- 10% toate datele de caracteristica dar diferentele exista !) Cea ce inseamna ca pot sa apara 20% diferente intre caracteristicile difurilor ...! Daca un dif este mai sensibil iar celelalte trei au sensibilitate mai mica vei da volum mai mare ca sa sune tare boxa drept care diful cel mai sensibil probabil se va distruge .deoarece ajungi sa-l soliciti mecanic peste ce rezista ..iar celelalte difuri mai lenese abea se misca , Asa ca se plateste si aceasta selectare in "pereche" ale difurilor cea ce asigura o fiabilitate mai mare .ptr o boxa ...( speaker driver matching for unique response ) DAR de trei ori pretul ?....nu stiu ce reprezinta ... poate are garantie 100 de ani ?ti-l schimba BOGNER orice ai face cu el ..? Edited January 29, 2015 by karpi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posho Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Strict on topic, care-or fi diferentele audibile intre Behringer si Bognerul ala dracu stie. Nu prea mari, cred. Da, cutia o fi mai buna la Bogner, mda, cit de greu e sa faci imbinari nut-feder CNC. Or fi ceva diferente la wiring si asa, poate. Pina si pentru cineva ca mine, perfect neinteresat de electronica e taaaare greu sa legi 4 difuri in mai multe feluri, ce sa spun! Dar diferenta de pret este data de pozitionarea pe piata. Atit. Argument: nu doar pe piata asta alde Bogner se pozitioneaza atit de sus, fac schiuri (fac pe dracu, le cumpara de la Head si le rebranduiesc vinzindu-le de 4-5 ori mai scump), fac costume de schi bune (daca le fac ei, nu stiu) la fel de bune ca al meu, 25000-25000, dar urite cu spume. Si mai scumpe decit al meu care e scump, scump. E doar o chestie de piata si atit, exista oameni care cumpara asa ceva si e-n regula. In ce ma priveste nu cumpar nici de la Behringer nimic dar nici de la Bogner vreodata. Dar nici nu vad de ce sa pun niste difuri bune intr-o cutie probabil slaba. E ca si cind as schia cu clapari de competitie pe schiuri de amator. Voi obtine ceva dar nu mare lucru. Edited January 29, 2015 by Posho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varu' maftei Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Cutia e clar mai bine facuta la Bogner, dar mare parte din pret e data de nume. Pe de alta parte, nu stiu unde-s facute Celestioanele din Bogner, dar e posibil sa fie facute OEM pentru ei (in Anglia, nu in China), la fel ca pentru Mesa si unele Orange-uri, deci asta ar creste putin pretul. Uite ce zice Steve Fryette: The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is an 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*T3903 Standard 8 ohmT3904 Standard 16 ohmT3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohmT4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohmT4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUKU Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Eu detin un cabinet HB e cel de aici https://m.thomann.de/ro/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm?ref=ncmh Sunt foarte multumit de el ) primul lucru cand a ajuns a fost sa il desfac sa vad daca sunt chiar v30 difurile si sunt si suna bine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUKU Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 se pot verifica daca sunt originale difurile celestion din cabineturile HB?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpi Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Normal trebuie sa aiba "timbru" cu IPSWICH ENGLAND , cu serii pe membrana , serie pe magnet ...etc Am trei difuri originale 10" de putere mare cu magnet foarte mare si foarte greu ( din aceasta cauza stau intr-o boxa doua si nu le-am folosit niciodata ,,sunt enorm de grele ) cu bobina de 16 Ohmi cu sarma profil dreptunghiular .. le-am desfacut sa le schimb firul mobil ce era intrerupt din cauza eroziunii chimice ( asa le-am cumparat in talcioc ) este plin de serii peste tot , la difuri mai moderne nu am vazut atatea serii la subansamble . Difurile noi Vintage30 sunt replici moderne ale celor originale aceiasi conceptie dar se folosesc materiale moderne ..deci 100% nu o sa sune la fel .. Edited January 29, 2015 by karpi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggg Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Eu detin un cabinet HB e cel de aici https://m.thomann.de/ro/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm?ref=ncmh V30 sunt originale si sunt ok . Am cumparat si eu 4x12 aceeasi serie , Vintage . Boxele sunt copiate 1:1 dupa Framus . Tolex-ul este de o calitate absolut indoielnica....but who cares?? Edited January 29, 2015 by ggg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUKU Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Subscriu, tolexul lasa de dorit, in rest e ok isi merita banii, desi nu inteleg cum pot sa puna 2 v30 intr-un cabinet si per total sa coste cat 2 difuzoare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edy_wheazel Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 În afară de sigla "Bogner" si de lemnul de calitate superioară.. Mahon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpi Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Mahon. Cu intarzie " rapirea din serai " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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