Musicians And Public

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

Hi. I'm an American banjo player. I've lived in Bucharest for 5 years and man, I'm starting to think the things people told me before I came here were right. "You'll see..." they said, "You can't get anything done."

 

I don't know how many bass players we've gone through. Our music is not complicated, and you can find hundreds of examples of the style on YouTube. I see, and understand, that many bassists are motivated by money. Nothing wrong with that. But: "Seeking band with activity onstage," "Seeking band with paying concerts," etc.

 

This is something I haven't yet figured out about Romania. How does a band that doesn't have a bassist have paying concerts?? This is a serious question. How do these people actually get into bands that already have paying concerts? It's like a cop looking for criminals who've already been arrested. A band with regular paying concerts is probably not looking for you, Einstein! I wonder why you've been posting the same message for so long and not gotten anywhere.

 

I also get this question sometimes... There are no other bands in Romania that play bluegrass (correct me if I'm wrong), and one other band I know of that plays a kind of country music (Desperados). "Do you think something like that will catch on here?" Umm... YES. Romanians, including non-musicians, who hear us love us. Romanian society also seems to eat up anything American (media is our #1 export). The only people who've EVER questioned whether anyone would like my band's music have been musicians. I can't help wondering if this is related to the absence of a free market here for so long. No one here listens to bluegrass because there is no bluegrass here. When someone comes along with a new product in an unsaturated market, Americans JUMP on that shit! E.g. Bill Gates, if you've ever heard of him. But all I hear around me is, "I don't know, no one else is doing that. I don't know if it will work." That's the idea, dude! Someone else will come along and do it if you don't, and leave you behind. The public is more curious than you give them credit for. Or they are simply bored, if you prefer.

 

My wife is talking about a possible move abroad, and I'm actually resisting it because this style of music DOES exist in other European countries. The public here would love it, but the musicians here seem to be terrified of anything the public doesn't already love. Maybe that's why they're playing American bands' music and not the other way around. That O-Zone hit was huge in the states, even in a language no one understood (I know they're not Romanian, I just mean to say people are curious about things from other cultures). Fanfare Ciocarlia toured the US and Canada last year because people are dying to hear something different and unusual. Don't blame the fuckin public if you only offer them what they already have. That's like saying your cat only likes turkey when you've never given him anything else.

 

I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings. I like to think there are others around here who would agree with me. I just had to get this off my chest.

[Alchimistu]

It's sad that bluegrass is not so popular, and yet comercial music (which means nothing) rule our musical influences. I'm glad Desperados is listened to, they deserve a lot more than any pop singer in the world, for real. There is nothing we can do about what you said, at least not right now, we just have to wait for others to realize what true music and effort to do it means. By the way, we talked a few months ago about my banjo 5th string nut. Soon it will come back from the workshop, and I'm ready to restart playing!

[Cognek]

well guess we all got a card to play even if it's bluegrass... psychobilly... texas blues... delta blues er whatever thing that "don't set right with us" tho there's a big goddamn problem when ya try tew make a livin out of it and part of it is related to culture and all it's aspects... dig that folks round here don't crap their pants for big reasons... just throw in sum shit simple... meaningless lyrics (sex... money fame and fashion related of course) ... then add a good pair of tits (autotuned eventually haha) and strong marketing and y'all hit the billboard in no time even if ya come from the backoods of f... zambia...

Ye well this goes around purty much everywhere but we are just about overwhelmed by meaningless crap (least from my point of view haha) ... bluegrass is a decent kind of music... ah love it as much as ah do love my homemade wine and moonshine ... but even so... I think it's so darn full of culture itself and day by day as I do more reasearchin over this little fiddlin thing .... i eventually find out that i'm quite far away from really diggin this music(even tho I know there's a redneck in everyone of us haha)... I'd love to play sum banjo one day but again... folks round my little town would just stare dumbfounded for a couple of secs and then walk away without knowin ... wtf was that... Anyhow, eversince ah started playin my guitar, ah did it just because ah like music and it's just fascinatin to like be able to play and amaze yourself... and sum friends. But hey... like if lady luck smiles upon my little ass and I get to make money out of gigs and stuff it'd sure be on helluva thing tho it seems kinda hard as of now...

And now don't get me wrong... ah don't say that well ya can't make money out of music but there's sum certain kind of music that just don't fit in our local bars and well i'm not tryin to bring anyone down but bluegrass sure sounds "exotic" like... in an awkward way...

As of what type of music ya can make a livin out round here... nah ah don't wanna promote crap...

And this is just the tip of the damn iceberg ... shitberg... but ah know yer aware of all them issues... and sumtn makes me bliev that it kinda makes you sick... however don't give up... least I'm a big fan of good country music and there's a bunch of country bands round this country but nobody takes it seriously... er least that's how i see the whole thing...

Hell maybe we need a good startin kick right from someone that's been there and done that... we're just posers haha... Btw... what state ya from pardner?

[Eldrian]

Try taking your band out on the street busking. Make a cardboard cutout of a bassplayer and write something like : " Do YOU want to be here ? " on it. I'm not joking. You could promote your band and find some guy willing to play with you. Only from time to time there's something new going on, but most of the times it's the odd violin player who only knows 3 songs.

 

Will double bass players also do ? I sometimes meet a guy who plays both. I don't know his name, number, anything, all I know is he hangs around pubs in the center.

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

Cognek, I'm not talking about making money or a living. I'm talking about convincing someone to join us to practice 2 fking hours a week and to come to performances when we have them. We can't get gigs without a bass player, but ALL of the bass players I find want to know that you have paying gigs before joining. Babies.

You actually unintentionally echoed what many of them say. "Oh geeee, I don't knowww, no one else is doing that, so I don't think it will be very popular. I don't know if it will be worth the effort to meet for two hours once a week. I think I'll just stay home." It's like holding a bottle of water and saying, "Gee, I don't know if I'll be able to open it. I think I'll just leave it closed." Just try to open the damn thing!

I'm from PA.

 

-Chuckk

Edited May 18, 2013 by YankeuDeHunedoara

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

Try taking your band out on the street busking. Make a cardboard cutout of a bassplayer and write something like : " Do YOU want to be here ? " on it. I'm not joking. You could promote your band and find some guy willing to play with you. Only from time to time there's something new going on, but most of the times it's the odd violin player who only knows 3 songs.

 

Will double bass players also do ? I sometimes meet a guy who plays both. I don't know his name, number, anything, all I know is he hangs around pubs in the center.

 

Not a bad idea! We used to play a lot in Cismigiu, and got a lot of people stopping and asking. I think busking is a great idea, because we can cut through the bullshit of these childish bass players and go right to people's ears. I'll suggest it to the mandolinist and violinist...

Double bass would be a DREAM for us! We met with a guy who played double bass, but, big surprise, he didn't wake up the morning of practice and was so ashamed he couldn't be bothered to answer his phone, the little bitch. More than once...

If you happen to get hold of the guy's info, please do pass it on.

 

-Chuckk

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

Chuck, sorry to burst your bubble man, but you moved to a country where conformity was state

policy for nearly 50 years. Without being overly pessimistic I would guess both you and I will be

long gone before its traits disappear.

 

That bubble was burst long ago!

Not to overgeneralize, because there are all kinds of people everywhere, but I sometimes think of this old experiment in learned helplessness, in regard to Romanian society. If you put a dog in an area with different walls and buttons and stuff, and shock the dog, it will run around until it finds the switch or gate that turns off the shock. But if you shock the dog so it can't get away for a couple hours first, then put him in the same situation, he will only lie down and whimper, rather than running around and pushing levers; he doesn't even try to escape. I do know plenty of Romanians who refuse to accept injustice, and there were plenty even throughout the Communist era (Vasile Paraschiv, e.g.), but I think I probably know more who accept it without complaint.

 

Of course, maybe you've noticed too, dudu, that one has to be careful generalizing in a different society, for good or bad; sometimes it seems like every problem I have is because of cultural differences, but that's not always the case. I sometimes feel like Romanians walk painfully slowly on the sidewalk, but in reality it's the same in America; it's actually me that walks fast.

[Dusty11]

I'm so glad that I saw this topic. Well, I am from Romania and I play country (generally speaking, playing different styles of country like traditional country, americana, country rock, alt country). I love bluegrass too, but it's kinda difficult to play if you don't have all that instruments, you know what I mean. I'm a vocalist and I play some guitar too. I have some guys who playes with me. If you're interested, just let me know and we'll see what we can do. You can find me here : raduburla@ymail.com. Have a nice day!

[Cognek]

Cognek, I'm not talking about making money or a living. I'm talking about convincing someone to join us to practice 2 fking hours a week and to come to performances when we have them. We can't get gigs without a bass player, but ALL of the bass players I find want to know that you have paying gigs before joining. Babies.

You actually unintentionally echoed what many of them say. "Oh geeee, I don't knowww, no one else is doing that, so I don't think it will be very popular. I don't know if it will be worth the effort to meet for two hours once a week. I think I'll just stay home." It's like holding a bottle of water and saying, "Gee, I don't know if I'll be able to open it. I think I'll just leave it closed." Just try to open the damn thing!

I'm from PA.

 

-Chuckk

PA... that makes sense... now there's sum 8 secs ah ain't gonna bet on...

 

Well sir if ya don't find what ya need in like a city worth of... what...like a few hundred thousand? Well that sure sounds darn odd to me...

Honestly let's try and find the real baby here... alright... doubt "my" boys gonna dig it ...

 

I live in a small town worth of ... way less than 10.000 ... right... and I got me a full band... and we're playin sumtn like some southern rock whatever... Hell folks round here don't even know who Jimi Hendrix is... but we're having fun just like you wanna... right?

 

I like us shit... we're full of us shit (from whatever state) round here where I live... don't ask how... just bliev...

Now ya can dig smart crap... makes sense right... state policy my ass...

 

How bout tryin harder... if that don't work.... do yer best... if ya feel like it's enough for ya... move back to PA...

Hell I like US but ah got my darn romanian pride... these folks ain't cubs... try to figure yer way tru and out... and post some of yer stuff here... maybe it'll help.. who knows... alright ... God bless!

 

Long story short.... don't blame it on US... blame it on YERSELF!

[TheZKD]

This guy rarely writes anything even remotely intelligent . I don't even think he has a band , just ignore him .

 

 

So let me get this strait . You are a proud romanian , but you play US music , you try to identify yourself as a redneck/hillbilly ( again a US thing , you haven't even been to the US ) , you even try to type and write a in southern style accent and you're trying to explain the guy that these folks are open and he is not trying hard enough ? In this messed up country ? You just proved your state of conformity . Lol . Actually please back up your theory by showing us your big musical success with some proof .

[Cognek]

 

 

So let me get this strait .

 

It's straight ... but queers ain't...

 

As for the rest ... ... If I tell you that I don't play guitar... I don't have a band or even if I tell you that I'm a genuine poser... will that make ya feel better... ? Not that it's true or anything but will that make ya smile?... If not... go ahead and kiss my country ass!

 

I didn't say that I've been playin a lot and had ... success er whatever... but the day I'll bang you in the head with a guitar ... well let's just say that it's gonna end up as one helluva milestone for my musical success haha!

 

Before sayin anything else ... tryin to rattle me er anything... think of this banjo dude here that (alright I do a lot of craptalk I know... specially when I'm drinkin my sweetwater) ... He don't really need to see this unless it's really entertainin... Think of you bein intelligent and me bein stupid... cause I'm purty darn sure that's what yer thinkin right?... And think of this... ... nobody gives a damn ace... and that includes me 2... Have a nice day sir!

 

And Chuckk... I had to drink that night so ... well that figures hehe... alright God bless!

[TheZKD]

Thank you for proving my point , this is exactly the kind of response I was expecting .

[damageplan]

Chuck, sorry to burst your bubble man, but you moved to a country where conformity was state

policy for nearly 50 years. Without being overly pessimistic I would guess both you and I will be

long gone before its traits disappear.

conformity is no excuse man, just check out japan. crazy stuff going on there, after 900 years of conformity.

Anyway, I for one would like to listen to bluegrass in a pub whilst drinking beer. Good luck finding a pub that plays bluegrass here, sadly. Or blues, or jazz. The truth is, lots of people here (the majority) either do not care what music they listen to, or they enjoy only simple electro shit..or worse. Cultural expansion is not a priority here, sadly. Not yet anyway and that reflects on musicians as well. If I were you, and those bass players came to audition with that kind of attitude, I would have strung them up their basses and slide-guitared their neck with a broken glass slide. Southern style. You are better off without them.That just pisses me. And fuck romanian pride, I got enough of that last week at a baptism where sadly I was invited: "ham baetii de valoareee hai tzupa tzupa ...pentru Butooooi, pentru Salaaaaaam...din baeti fac comandoooor hai tzupa tzupa rata ratata haha woi woi eeehahai tzupa tzupa" well salted with flanger and reverb from a 5000eu Roland keyboard. Again, fuck stupid romanian pride!

[Alex]

Yankeu, I'm not insulted by anything you said so please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think it's a good idea to be in another country and start saying stuff like "hey, everything I've been told about this place turned out to be true."

 

If I move to the US and start seeing stuff like, I don't know, excessive crime, I don't think I'd join a forum to explicitly tell Americans "Hey, everything I've heard about your issues with gun control seems to be true!". It's just that thing of not criticizing the furniture when you're in another person's house, you know? Even if the furniture is, indeed, very ugly.

 

But I'm the furthest thing from a patriot and I never really believed in civic pride, so it's not like I took this personally. Not at all, it was more of a general thought on the way some people word their opinions on a country they're either visiting or emigrating to. Please forgive me if I sound condescending, not my intention. I would like to point out, however, that you do sound very patronizing with snide remarks like "E.g. Bill Gates, if you've ever heard of him."

 

Maybe the problem is not just the public (as musically illiterate as it may be), or your fellow musicians (as conceited as some of them might be). Maybe part of the problem is also your attitude. In a single post you've managed to throw a bunch of jabs at our country, music industry, history, etc... All in one go. And I'm not saying you're not right, but maybe you're also part of the problem. Food for thought, I don't know you and can't judge you as a person, but you do come across here like the stereotypical 'holier than thou' American who has blessed Europe with his sole presence on this continent.

 

Alright, so aside from that, good luck trying to do bluegrass music in Romania. I think banjo is a very cool instrument and bluegrass is an interesting genre for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's a niche thing even in the States. Couple that with people's bad taste in music, and you just have a recipe for frustration and disappointment. Since we're being so honest about each other's countries here, trying to promote good musicianship in Romania is like trying to promote vegan diets in the States.

 

But I do wish you good luck! And again, not my intention to be rude to you, just honest.

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

Yankeu, I'm not insulted by anything you said so please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think it's a good idea to be in another country and start saying stuff like "hey, everything I've been told about this place turned out to be true."

 

Absolutely right, one must refrain from making comments like that. In 6 years I've refrained from saying such things again and again because I'm always aware that I got just as frustrated in American society from time to time. I must point out, though, that the people who had told me how frustrating Romania would be were always only Romanians, chastising me for my optimism and my belief that things might not be so bad. So if you say anything positive about the country, the natives berate you; if you say anything negative about the country, the natives berate you. I know foreigners who have established themselves in the states and criticize various aspects openly and people agree or disagree just like they would with a fellow American. I've been here for 6 years and I speak the language fluently. I engage in serious conversation with Romanians about Romania on a regular basis. It may sound whiny to say that this society is messed up, but I'm most definitely saying it from the inside.

 

If I move to the US and start seeing stuff like, I don't know, excessive crime, I don't think I'd join a forum to explicitly tell Americans "Hey, everything I've heard about your issues with gun control seems to be true!". It's just that thing of not criticizing the furniture when you're in another person's house, you know? Even if the furniture is, indeed, very ugly.

 

I could introduce you to foreigners in the US who do so. But I didn't join this forum just to make this post. I joined it years ago and have used it often with no complaining.

 

I would like to point out, however, that you do sound very patronizing with snide remarks like "E.g. Bill Gates, if you've ever heard of him."

 

My point being that it can be very rewarding to embrace an unexplored market, however small it may seem. As they say, it takes no courage to buy when everyone else is buying, but the returns are small.

 

Maybe the problem is not just the public (as musically illiterate as it may be), or your fellow musicians (as conceited as some of them might be). Maybe part of the problem is also your attitude. In a single post you've managed to throw a bunch of jabs at our country, music industry, history, etc... All in one go. And I'm not saying you're not right, but maybe you're also part of the problem. Food for thought, I don't know you and can't judge you as a person, but you do come across here like the stereotypical 'holier than thou' American who has blessed Europe with his sole presence on this continent.

 

Single post? Again, I didn't just get off the boat. I've been here for 6 years and have been working with musicians here for a good part of it. That was not "a single post". I made many other posts before this one that were not at all cynical, some of them in Romanian. Only someone who doesn't know me would think of me as a stereotypical American.

 

Alright, so aside from that, good luck trying to do bluegrass music in Romania. I think banjo is a very cool instrument and bluegrass is an interesting genre for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's a niche thing even in the States.

 

It is not top 40, but I never said anything about that. I said people love it, and they do, in the states and here. The hard part here is getting musicians to play with you. Now, of course, I have a country/bluegrass band and we've played a dozen concerts in the last few months, including some pretty good locations. The public loves us, but still we're having the same old problem with the personnel. Good product, wanted by the people, but the ones who have it don't want to distribute it.

My Romanian wife is now also pushing me and pushing me to leave Romania, and I am still convinced that this is the best market for what I have.

 

-Chuckk

[YankeuDeHunedoara]

I have no opinion on bluegrass music or bluegrass musicians either way, but I would like to point out that, while I do understand the spirit of your example, there might be better choices to illustrate courage or genius than Bill Gates: http://philip.greens...umor/bill-gates

 

I'd also recommend the "Pirates of Silicon Valley" movie for more information.

 

I don't know about courage or genius, but I think Bill Gates is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, because he's a greedy bastard. I can't stand him. But he saw opportunity early on in an undeveloped market and, rather than starting a company to do things lots of other companies were doing, he started a company to do something that almost no one was doing. If he had been a musician in Bucharest today, he would not have started a metal band...